@Krixus
I was one of the many most vocal supporters aganist the cash shop that was originally posted on this site (sprinter's boots, etc.) and it was removed. And there was discussion of no cash shop period; however, I was disappointed to see Kilsin mention that they're leaving the door open for non-advantageous in game items in cash shop on a different thread. I get it, they need to pay the bills, but I think it's a bad idea.
If there was any sort of cash shop, it would need to be for purely external items: Coffee Mugs, Pantheon T-Shirts, Hats, Cloth Maps, Collector's editions etc. etc. An in-game cash shop will ultimately lead to exp potions and other cash grabs, the money draw is too much - I don't care if the original intention of the shop was 100% pure with promises of no in-game advantages.
I still think it's naive for the developers to not pursue a purely aesthetic cash shop, but whatever.
It's an amazing revenue stream and outside of a few vocal complainers it seems like a positive. People generally only talk about things when they oppose them, so when you look at articles/forum posts, there is an inherent bias towards a negative opinion of any given thing. It's the same concept with customer reviews. Positive reviews are very rare in contrast with negative ones, because most satisfied people don't feel the psychological drive to invest effort in expressing their positive opinions.
The power over the cash shop rests in the hands of the developers. By not having a cash shop as well, they're basically admitting one of two things:
1. We can't trust ourselves to not sell gameplay advantages, so we're abstaining because we're that incompetent.
2. We're naive enough to pass up on a massive revenue stream because we've fallaciously concluded that cash shops as a concept are flawed, regardless of implementation.
Either way, I do not think it is anyone's best interests to not have one, but I guess I don't really give a **** anyway.
Liav said:I still think it's naive for the developers to not pursue a purely aesthetic cash shop, but whatever.
No cash shop has ever stayed purely aesthetic, and, even if you (developers) could promise that with 100% certainty, it still waters down itemization within the game, which goes back to the "appearance gear" thread.
Well last I checked, game making is still a business. Investors expect a profit on their investments, and hopefully to see revenues increase over time as on any investment.
Game development of something on the scale of a large MMO takes a lot of money and usually more in the dev process than in the support and live operation stages.
I for one am not against having a cash shop if it means keeping the Pantheon project a viable operation.
Cash shops help with period revenue bumps from holiday items and new collectibles that players love to have.
People talk about paying large monthly sub fees but until those numbers get crunched out I think other sources of revenue are going to be needed.
If there is one thing that FTP and cash shops have taught the gaming industry is that not all players are equal, at least financially. Some have far more casual cash to part with than others. Making everyone a $15 user is not a wise choice anymore financially. Some have less time and more money and want to spend it. On themselves, on friends, on their guild. There should be a mechanism if only to keep a game business viable.
It's nice to shout all high and mighty NO CASH SHOP, but when friends ask whatever happened to that Pantheon game that you were waiting for you can say the same thing.
At the beginning of EQ2 they had some idea where every quarter or every four months maybe they would release an expansion pack. They did a few of them but not many. I always like that idea. I mean you had to pay another 15 or 20 bucks or whatever it was but you got access to a whole new area with few easy group or raid mobs and maybe some dungeon or something with some new gear and some new stuff that was attainable in that area. This to me seem like a good way for the game to make money rather than just sell the items out right to the player.
I must admit I /facepalmed when I saw the title of this thread but was pleasantly surprised by the maturity shown compared to what I expected to see with so many replies lol :)
My post yesterday was playing it safe, in case we need sell merchandise/fluff/cosmetic items later on down the track (I'm talking 5-10-15 years down the track...) when the honeymoon period wears off and subscription numbers drop to keep the revenue coming in and the game supported.
I should have explained it better as I did not anticipate this thread being created or my post being referred too but to clear it up, we still maintain the stance of no cash shop and will continue that stance through launch and into the future until there may be a time where we need to bring in extra revenue to support the game, if that time ever comes around it will be a priority of mine to speak to the community first to get feedback on what you may wish to see in the store but this is something that may happen 5-10 years from now, or it may not happen at all, so definitely not worth worrying about at this point in time, it was merely an option to consider later on in the games "end years". :)
Wolfsong said:
If it's in the game, it should be earned in the game, by playing the game.
I'll second this, and what Fazool said about cosmetic motivation for drops.
Kilsin said:I must admit I /facepalmed when I saw the title of this thread but was pleasantly surprised by the maturity shown compared to what I expected to see with so many replies lol :)
My post yesterday was playing it safe, in case we need sell merchandise/fluff/cosmetic items later on down the track (I'm talking 5-10-15 years down the track...) when the honeymoon period wears off and subscription numbers drop to keep the revenue coming in and the game supported.
I should have explained it better as I did not anticipate this thread being created or my post being referred too but to clear it up, we still maintain the stance of no cash shop and will continue that stance through launch and into the future until there may be a time where we need to bring in extra revenue to support the game, if that time ever comes around it will be a priority of mine to speak to the community first to get feedback on what you may wish to see in the store but this is something that may happen 5-10 years from now, or it may not happen at all, so definitely not worth worrying about at this point in time, it was merely an option to consider later on in the games "end years". :)
The voice of reason! I appreciate the clarification.
zewtastic said:
Ok so now given what you can not have, what is left.
Cash Shop Ideas
- Additional House and Bank storage. (not on-character storage)
- Additional character slots
lockquote]
I see what you re getting at, but I disagree with these two,I dont think those should be cash shop items
No cash shops, everything in game should be obtained by playing the game.
Kilsin said:I must admit I /facepalmed when I saw the title of this thread but was pleasantly surprised by the maturity shown compared to what I expected to see with so many replies lol :)
My post yesterday was playing it safe, in case we need sell merchandise/fluff/cosmetic items later on down the track (I'm talking 5-10-15 years down the track...) when the honeymoon period wears off and subscription numbers drop to keep the revenue coming in and the game supported.
I should have explained it better as I did not anticipate this thread being created or my post being referred too but to clear it up, we still maintain the stance of no cash shop and will continue that stance through launch and into the future until there may be a time where we need to bring in extra revenue to support the game, if that time ever comes around it will be a priority of mine to speak to the community first to get feedback on what you may wish to see in the store but this is something that may happen 5-10 years from now, or it may not happen at all, so definitely not worth worrying about at this point in time, it was merely an option to consider later on in the games "end years". :)
Thank you for the clarification Kilsin, I've been seriously thinking about upping my pledge again and when I heard that I thought, maybe I'll hold out and keep that extra money for whatever they put in the shop lol (it may make no difference to the development in the end how they get that money, but it's a BIG difference to me).
If there is any type of "shop" I think it should only be account services; server transfer, name change, additional character slots, maybe even an appearance/gender change for an existing character (face it, a lot of people think they're happy with their character in creation but later down the line realize they hate something about it xP) (I think these alone will generate a lot of revenue).
I would not want to see any sort of in game items, "fluff" or not, as I've ALWAYS seen fluff items as a symbol of achievement; a rare painting/ carpet, furniture for your house (I loved collecting these in SWG :P), a special RP outfit, a neat mini pet, a special emote etc. obtained from a long questline/very rare drop. Being able to buy these types of things takes away a huge driving factor to continue playing, farming and discovering the world cause you can just buy them. I like the arduous journey it usually takes to obtain said "fluff" and the achievement and satisfaction I feel when I have earned it through rigorous play.
Rachael
Kilsin said:I must admit I /facepalmed when I saw the title of this thread but was pleasantly surprised by the maturity shown compared to what I expected to see with so many replies lol :)
My post yesterday was playing it safe, in case we need sell merchandise/fluff/cosmetic items later on down the track (I'm talking 5-10-15 years down the track...) when the honeymoon period wears off and subscription numbers drop to keep the revenue coming in and the game supported.
I should have explained it better as I did not anticipate this thread being created or my post being referred too but to clear it up, we still maintain the stance of no cash shop and will continue that stance through launch and into the future until there may be a time where we need to bring in extra revenue to support the game, if that time ever comes around it will be a priority of mine to speak to the community first to get feedback on what you may wish to see in the store but this is something that may happen 5-10 years from now, or it may not happen at all, so definitely not worth worrying about at this point in time, it was merely an option to consider later on in the games "end years". :)
Thanks for the clarification Kilsin.
I agree with everyone who says that they want all items to be achievable by playing the game. I think that is a very important part of MMOs. If I see someone with a really cool looking weapon for example and I find out it was bought in a cash shop I always feel somewhat disappointed. I want to hear that the person beat a really hard group or raid encounter to get such a cool looking weapon not that they have just spent £10 on a cash item to make themselves look better. It just ruins the wow factor for me.
fazool said:Some of the most compelling motivators in EQ were for purely cosmetic items.....simply because they looked so cool.
Once we could buy ornaments all that went away, so I have very mixed feelings about it.
I would prefer no cash shop at all, ever. I would rather pay a big subscription price.
I agree totally, if you can buy a great looking item, how can you show off one you quested an eternity for. what pride is their..
No cash shop, Higher Subscription for me please
Rachael said:If there is any type of "shop" I think it should only be account services; server transfer, name change, additional character slots, maybe even an appearance/gender change for an existing character (face it, a lot of people think they're happy with their character in creation but later down the line realize they hate something about it xP) (I think these alone will generate a lot of revenue).
I would not want to see any sort of in game items, "fluff" or not, as I've ALWAYS seen fluff items as a symbol of achievement; a rare painting/ carpet, furniture for your house (I loved collecting these in SWG :P), a special RP outfit, a neat mini pet, a special emote etc. obtained from a long questline/very rare drop. Being able to buy these types of things takes away a huge driving factor to continue playing, farming and discovering the world cause you can just buy them. I like the arduous journey it usually takes to obtain said "fluff" and the achievement and satisfaction I feel when I have earned it through rigorous play.
Rachael
I like the way you think.
I hate cash shops - it always starts with "only cosmetic items" and a year later you can buy high end gear.
I don't mind if i have to pay for the game, for the expansion and a monthly sub, but no cash shop.
They only thing that should cost real cash should be server transfers, as long as a server is not totally under / over -populated
Name changes should not be possible, otherwhise the whole idea with "building a reputation to your name" is wasted. If you act like an idiot its totally fine for me if the whole server know about it. Acting like an idiot and just change your name every two weeks is nothing i support.
zewtastic said:Those days are gone. We live in the age of FTP cash grabs by games that generate revenue by selling P2W schemes based on gambling and grinding.
Just because "those days" are gone does not mean that some of us cannot have a game that follows a different path. Truth isn't measured in mass appeal.
No cash shop for me.
Kilsin said:I must admit I /facepalmed when I saw the title of this thread but was pleasantly surprised by the maturity shown compared to what I expected to see with so many replies lol :)
My post yesterday was playing it safe, in case we need sell merchandise/fluff/cosmetic items later on down the track (I'm talking 5-10-15 years down the track...) when the honeymoon period wears off and subscription numbers drop to keep the revenue coming in and the game supported.
I should have explained it better as I did not anticipate this thread being created or my post being referred too but to clear it up, we still maintain the stance of no cash shop and will continue that stance through launch and into the future until there may be a time where we need to bring in extra revenue to support the game, if that time ever comes around it will be a priority of mine to speak to the community first to get feedback on what you may wish to see in the store but this is something that may happen 5-10 years from now, or it may not happen at all, so definitely not worth worrying about at this point in time, it was merely an option to consider later on in the games "end years". :)
Thank you for putting that baby to bed.
The only type of cash shop I would support is a web based one used for server changes/appearance changes. Maybe some cool Mounts or pets with no actual benefits other than looks. Similar to WoW's minus the token. Having a sub based game is already hard enough this day and age. Add a cash shop in and people would be livid